Summary of the 8th edition of the webinar series «Les entretiens de l'ECODEF», on the theme of human resources in the armaments sector
The 8e The first edition of this webinar, entitled «Human resources in the armaments sector: challenges and solutions», was broadcast live on Wednesday 28 February 2024.
The theme of human resources issues in the armaments sector is particularly topical, as the French armaments sector is facing a number of challenges in terms of human resources: the growing need for skilled resources, particularly in the context of the increasing importance of the defence industry, the search for meaning for the younger generations, changes in the relationship between companies and employees, etc. The French armaments industry is also facing a number of challenges in terms of human resources: the growing need for skilled resources, particularly in the context of the increasing importance of the defence industry, the search for meaning for the younger generations, changes in the relationship between companies and employees, etc.
The webinar covered the following topics:
- Current recruitment against a backdrop of tightness in the labour market, increasing development and production requirements and growing needs for new skills (AI, cyber, factory of the future, etc.).
- Maintaining skills
- Professional mobility
- Building staff loyalty
Moderated by Olivier Martin, Chairman of the Steering Committee of the Chair in Defence Economics - IHEDN, this webinar featured an exchange between :
- Jean BELIN, Chair of Defence Economics - IHEDN
- Caroline KRYKWINSKI, Director of Human Resources, DGA
- Mikaël BUTTERBACH, Head of Human Resources, Airbus Defence & Space
The Chair has compiled a summary of the main lessons learned from this webinar, including the full video is available on the Chair's YouTube page.
Presentation of the speakers
Olivier Martin: Could you tell us about the general state of the labour market and the determinants of the labour supply?
Jean Belin : With the Covid crisis, activity and employment fell sharply in 2020. We then saw significant job creation from 2021 onwards (+0.8 % on average per quarter). The positive dynamic continued in 2022 and 2023, but at a slower pace (+0.3 % on average per quarter until the first quarter of 2023, then +0.1 % in the second and third quarters of 2023). In the end, as the table below shows, the picture is fairly positive over the whole period from 2019 to 2023. As INSEE notes [1] «In the third quarter of 2023, salaried employment will be 4.8 1Q3Q above its level at the end of 2019, representing just over 1.2 million additional jobs».
Fig. 1 : Quarterly change in salaried employment by sector
Growth in activity and employment has slowed more sharply in 2024 due to the tightening of monetary policy (increase in the interest rate) and the level of inflation, but few figures are yet available. Given the increase in defence budgets, the dynamic should be different in the defence sector. These strong job creations have led to recruitment difficulties. In 2022, recruitment difficulties in industry were at their highest for 20 years: more than 65% of companies in industry were experiencing recruitment difficulties. Since then, recruitment difficulties have fallen, but more than half of companies in industry are still experiencing difficulties.
Fig. 2 : Recruitment difficulties - % of companies affected by major sector of activity
If we look at the forecasts for 2024, INSEE notes that «In January 2024, the business climate in France is stable, while the employment climate darkens slightly».
On the determinants of labour supply : The supply of labour is explained in economics on the basis of the neoclassical model (where the individual The individual chooses between work and leisure according to his utility function). The supply of labour then depends on the real wage, but also on agents' individual preferences. Salary is not the only factor, and other elements must also be taken into consideration: perquisites, the level of effort required, the range of activities to which the employee may be assigned, the length of the contract, etc.
In recent times, labour supply may have been affected by rising inflation and falling real wages. Many press articles have also highlighted a change in young people's behaviour towards work and a change in their individual preferences regarding the meaning given to work, the importance of pay, the attractiveness of teleworking, and so on.
However, these changes in behaviour are not fully confirmed by surveys on the subject. The most comprehensive survey is the one conducted jointly by Terra Nova and Apec among 5,000 working people, including 3,000 under the age of 30 (February 2024): «Far from stereotypes, this survey shows that young working people are committed to and motivated by their professional development. Just as committed to their work as their elders, they have the same expectations of work as their elders: remuneration, interesting assignments and a balanced life».
Olivier Martin: Could you introduce us then the specific characteristics of defence jobs?
Jean Belin : There is little research on defence companies and very little on defence jobs. The majority of studies on defence employment issues analyse the impact of defence spending on employment or employment in the armed forces, but not in defence companies.
Literature on labour supply in the military sector [2] (but not in defence companies) analyses the determinants of labour demand and supply. The determinants of labour supply in this field include remuneration, individual preferences and also other benefits (such as serving one's country or other indirect benefits). This literature also analyses the impact of structural changes in the economy in general on labour supply (the influence of lower unemployment rates and increased opportunities in the civilian sphere, higher wage growth in the civilian sector, higher school enrolment rates, etc.).
Based on capital expenditure (€26.1bn) and exports (€8.3bn) in 2023, we can estimate, using the input-output method, that the defence business generated around 250,000 direct and indirect jobs in defence companies [3]. These jobs are divided more or less equally between the principals and the subcontracting chain.
The specific characteristics of defence companies and their R&D intensity [4] mean that they employ more managers, engineers and researchers than civil companiess.
Riebe, Schmid and Reuter (2021) have analysed the mobility of defence company personnel in Germany. Based on 513 job biographies on the LinkedIn social network, they show that mobility is much lower in defence companies than in the civilian sector The average number of changes was 3.24 for staff in defence companies, while professionals who had worked more than 50 % of their time in the civilian sector changed 4.61 times on average.
Defence companies and jobs can be found in most départements, but with a certain concentration (see map) and according to certain specialisations:
- Ile de France: R&D, electronics, IT, space
- Nouvelle-Aquitaine - Midi-Pyrénées: aeronautics & space
- PACA: naval, electronics, aeronautics
- Brittany: shipbuilding, electronics, cyber
- Centre: land armaments, missiles
If we look at the shortage occupations in 2022 (industry and services excluding construction), we can see that many of the most short-staffed occupations are useful in defence companies.
Fig. 3 Careers in the industry with the most job vacancies in 2022
Recruitment constraints for these occupations are mainly due to a lack of manpower, high hiring intensity (e.g. engineers), training problems or geographical mismatches.
Olivier Martin: Caroline, Mikaël, first of all, do you have any comments on Jean Belin's speech?
Caroline Krykwinski : In fact, the expectations of the youngest employees are quite similar to those of their elders, whatever the sector of activity: attachment to the meaning and interest of their missions, the desire to be useful and a player in a world undergoing radical change, and legitimate expectations regarding their career development. As far as the defence sector is concerned, the main specificity lies in the relationship with time. This is because the sector has both a long timeframe (the duration of developments) and a short timeframe (the need to evolve rapidly in a war economy). This dual timeframe is an important factor in uniting our employees around the spirit of defence that drives the Ministry of the Armed Forces and, beyond that, our defence ecosystem.
Mikaël Butterbach We are living at a very special time in our society, with the end of the COVID crisis, the energy crisis and the geopolitical crisis at a time of full employment, a search for meaning, the deconstruction of intermediary bodies (politics, schools, etc.) and questions about how we can protect our environment. Companies are expected to rise to these challenges by developing their activities in a spirit of defence, with the aim of decarbonising the planet. In my view, this is the main solution to attracting young people, retaining our employees and meeting the challenges we face.
Olivier Martin: Caroline, Mikaël, could you give us a brief overview of your recruitment policy, the difficulties you are facing and the measures you are implementing to overcome them?
Caroline Krykwinski DGA: On the DGA side, we have been developing a workforce growth strategy since 2019, recruiting 1,000 people a year (+15% by 2030). We are recruiting across a broad spectrum of professions and skills (land, aeronautical, naval, space, digital, cyber, etc.) and there are not always enough resources available on the market at this level of skill. One of our strengths is our diversity - diversity of skills, statuses and forms of commitment (military, civilian, permanent, contractual). To facilitate recruitment, we are developing the DGA's visibility with the general public (communication policy on social networks, documentary and TV series project) or through targeted sourcing (school partnerships, network of partners). We are also seeking to develop human resources on the market through an active policy of internships and apprenticeships, pre-recruitment with student grants or service commitments. We plan to relocate some of our activities to take advantage of the capacity offered by certain employment areas (e.g. cyber skills in Toulouse and Toulon).
Mikaël Butterbach Airbus is working on our employer brand, which is linked to the development of our pioneering spirit, but also to taking into account major societal challenges such as the impact of our products on the planet, decarbonisation and, more particularly in our military activities, the development of a spirit of defence. We also rely on employee ambassadors who represent us in the employment ecosystem and are highly committed. We seek to share our businesses with as many people as possible, and by working our way up the education value chain (developing internships in classes of 3, 4 and 5), we are able to make a real difference to the lives of our employees.th and 2nde, For example, a training course for the children of Airbus employees combined with 1 training course for priority young people or young people from rural areas.) We are opening up our professions to jobseekers who are further away, with dedicated training courses (e.g. qualifying courses in metallurgy). Finally, we are stepping up in-house mentoring to make it easier to integrate new employees.
Olivier Martin: Caroline, Mikaël, what kind of mobility policy do your organisations apply? What difficulties do you encounter and what solutions do you have to overcome them?
Caroline Krykwinski DGA has an active and long-standing policy of internal mobility, as well as mobility with the various entities of the Ministry and a network of public and private partners. As far as internal mobility is concerned, we are building long-term career paths and our staff are building their skills partly through this mobility. We are now seeking to increase external mobility, in particular by targeting jobs within the natural employment pool that is the Ministry of the Armed Forces, and in particular within the armed forces where we are seeking to increase the immersion of our military personnel, but also civilians to strengthen their understanding of our customers« needs. This external mobility will become a milestone in access to responsibilities and recognition in advancement and promotion. We want to go even further to strengthen openness, adaptability and innovation by making mobility more fluid for our staff, by creating a ministerial »mobility area" with a cyber experiment in 2024 with entities from the Ministry of the Armed Forces such as the DGSE and COM Cyber. We are considering a possible extension to public partners such as ANSSI/DGSI in a second phase.
Mikaël Butterbach First of all, Airbus is prepared to take on more DGA staff for a limited period if DGA so wishes, and we are willing to work with DGA to create these gateways. More broadly, Airbus develops a wide range of defence products, in many different geographical locations and drawing on many different types of profession. We are therefore faced with issues of internal mobility, which nevertheless remains a complex «animal»: it depends on many factors (between the desire for progression, comfort, personal challenges, risk, family constraints, opportunities, capacities, etc.) and comes up against a very proactive mobility policy at Airbus (15% of mobility out of 130,000 employees). Airbus is doing its utmost to communicate dynamically about the opportunities available to them, to set up specific career paths, and to build bridges between the development of managers and technical expertise. Recent changes to the agreement governing the metallurgy industry have made it easier for us to implement this internal mobility. We encourage our employees not to stay in one product area but to be mobile in all areas.
As far as transnational mobility in the defence sector is concerned, this is obviously more complex, given the security constraints that we have to comply with at the request of our customers.
Olivier Martin: Caroline, Mikaël, what policy do you apply to retain your staff in order to maintain their motivation and skills? Here again, what constraints do you face in this area and how do you respond?
Caroline Krykwinski : We have a highly developed training policy at the DGA (skills maintenance and development). We also promote autonomy, delegation and subsidiarity, and we support our employees in the performance of their duties in order to strengthen their professional motivation. We also have a very important policy of support from the HR department for our employees, particularly in terms of their family life (help for children and spouses). Remuneration policy is also an important issue for us, and the DGA has also taken advantage of changes in the metallurgy agreement to review its remuneration policy in order to strengthen the commitment of its employees. We want to be able to use new levers to enhance the financial value of our employees, in particular by offering them greater differentiation in the current war for talent. However, we must ensure that this pay policy preserves one of DGA's strengths, namely the team spirit of our employees and their strong attachment to their profession and their institution.
Mikaël Butterbach : Building customer loyalty is a never-ending task. First of all, we have to give more meaning to what we do. For example, we are helping to set up training courses, such as a vocational college in aeronautics and a cybersecurity school where Airbus employees contribute to the training, thereby helping to retain our staff. We also have a strong social commitment policy, with every employee having the opportunity to make a contribution. For example, in the world of education, employees are involved in supporting young people from disadvantaged areas, either as mentors or through charity actions, such as a recent collective action of charity run with more than 4,000 employees. In the defence and security sector, we encourage our employees with a very dynamic policy towards our colleagues who are ready to commit themselves to the operational reserve or civil security. In order to foster attachment to our products and customers, we have also offered Airbus employees the opportunity to take their Brevet d'Initiation Aéronautique together. [5]. Finally, we have just renegotiated all our company agreements during 130 negotiation days over the last 2 years, thereby strengthening the internal dialogue within the company with our social partners and employees.
[1] INSEE, Informations rapides, No 300, Published on: 29/11/2023
[2] See J. Joana 2004 or Ash et al. 2007
[3] See Ecodef Chair Round Table September 2023)
[4] 28% of researchers working in French companies are in defence companies (cf. Belin et al. 2018)
[5] 2,000 employees took the BIA course and 350 Airbus employees passed their diploma.
Questions from the audience
- The defence sector suffers from a poor image, particularly among young people. What do you think, and what can be done to reverse this trend?
Jean Belin : There was a newsletter from the Chair on the perception of defence and the image is not negative. [1]. Among students, the war in Ukraine changed this perception of defence and showed the interest of defence. Nevertheless, current events change rapidly and it would be advisable to think about more structured actions to change the image of defence.
Mikaël Butterbach I don't have this feeling of a community of young people against the defence sector. When people apply for jobs, they know who we are. We have initiatives aimed at young people, but also at parents and teachers. We often welcome teachers.
Caroline Krykwinski One of the tools we use is our social networking strategy. For example, in January 2024 we created an Instagram account, which has already attracted many expressions of interest in joining the DGA, particularly as we have a wide range of skills to find. We need to communicate clearly about the jobs we are looking for to avoid disappointment. We need to do a lot of education and communication for the defence sector.
Jean Belin : It is also worth highlighting the important work undertaken by the Ministry of the Armed Forces, in particular with schools and universities, to raise awareness of the defence sector, particularly among young people.
Mikaël Butterbach : The parents of young people and their secondary school teachers should be taken into account.
- What specific actions are being taken in terms of training to recruit in areas where there is no industrial production?
Mikaël Butterbach The industry works with all government departments to raise awareness of our businesses, and we then support training. In the Toulouse region, for example, we have trained 1,000 jobseekers through training leading to qualifications (CQPM, etc.). [2]).
- Are there any public-private partnerships (PPPs) in the training of young people going into defence?
Caroline Krykwinski : There are PPPs, for example, with the University of Brittany in Cyber and in Bourges in the field of munitions (Bourges local authority, Ministry of the Armed Forces, industry). These initiatives are very useful because by working together we can pool our training resources, find synergies and share the resources created.
Mikaël Butterbach We're working with the education ecosystem along the same lines as our vocational school. As part of the France 2030 programme, as part of a consortium, we supported an expression of interest in developing more training courses (cybersecurity, but perhaps also artificial intelligence and robotics) so that we can take on our share of responsibility as a manufacturer for training and support.
Jean Belin : In the Nouvelle-Aquitaine region, the aeronautics industry has set up an engineering school supported by the Region, to fill a gap in the supply of engineers at various levels.
- Within the DGA, won't the mobility of civilians that is being sought hinder the maintenance of critical skills in the centres, while at the same time military engineers are experiencing a high level of mobility?
Caroline Krykwinski The aim is to maintain the skills of our civilians in the same way as we maintain the skills of our military personnel. Today, this involves periods of learning new skills and enrichment in worlds other than the DGA. While in the short term we need to ensure continuity of service, particularly in our test centres, which today operate and succeed thanks to this capital of skills, we also need to look at the long term and succeed in improving this external mobility for our civilian staff, so that it is better recognised, supported and valued.
Mikaël Butterbach DGA: With this in mind, manufacturers are very keen to work on these gateways for the benefit of DGA personnel. This is a complicated subject, so we need to work together on these opportunities.
Caroline Krykwinski It is indeed important that we also work on these bridges with our DTIB partners, as well as on the associated ethical aspects. Within this ethical framework, we need to succeed in building a real area of mobility and cooperation.
- How is DGA managing the issue of the age pyramid and the risk of ageing and skills obsolescence?
Caroline Krykwinski : We do indeed have a significant demographic renewal. In 2023, we will have had more retirements than expected (350 retirements this year and 1,000 new recruits). We are facing the challenge of demographic renewal, but also the challenge of implementing a senior policy to retain our staff for as long as possible to ensure that their knowledge is passed on (tutoring, mentoring and internal training functions). The aim is to have new tools and new organisational formats by 2024.
Mikaël Butterbach Airbus Beyond: Alongside similar initiatives, we are looking at ways of maintaining links with senior employees after they have left the company. We also have an independent structure, Airbus Beyond, which specialises in capitalising on knowledge and transferring it between employees, using a highly structured methodology.
- How does the DGA manage to compete in terms of remuneration with the private sector in areas where skills are in short supply?
Caroline Krykwinski Remuneration policy remains a sensitive issue, against a backdrop of inflation and scarcity. We have undertaken a major overhaul of our pay policy for our contract staff. On the military side, an overhaul had already been carried out 3 years ago with the NPRM. For our contract staff, who are the most volatile in an open labour market, we have similar levels of pay to DGA and the rest of the economy when they start working, but significant differences in pay appear after 10 years' service. We are trying to differentiate ourselves from the private sector by other means, such as training and career development, because we will never be able to compete with the private sector on pay levels. It is important today to have a remuneration policy that is also built on social dialogue and consensus with our staff.
- The defence sector is structurally associated with an image of older, male engineers, as shown by the composition of the Boards of the major defence groups. What is your policy for increasing diversity?
Jean Belin : First of all, studies show that the proportion of male staff in defence companies is higher than in civilian companies.
Caroline Krykwinski DGA: Within the DGA, we now have around 27 % of female staff. That's not enough, but it's a good result in a context where 90 % of our staff are engineers, technicians and workers, while the corresponding pool trained by the schools is not large enough. To increase this rate, we need to highlight certain specific features, such as technological innovation and creativity. We also want to recruit women at all stages of their lives, at the start of their careers but also after an initial career in the private sector, for those who wish to move into a public body or take on major responsibilities that the private sector does not always offer. Finally, I would like to emphasise that there is no discrimination between men and women in terms of pay or access to careers within the DGA.
Mikaël Butterbach : First of all, we can't hide behind the fact that only 20% women graduate from engineering schools and do nothing. We also need to be able to help young girls to say to themselves that they want to go into this type of profession. Last year, for example, we organised a major event with an association where women were able to share their experience of working in the industry (female captain, fighter pilot). These professions often have a masculine image and it is important to present examples of women in this field. Within the company, we also need to convince our female colleagues that they can apply for positions of responsibility. After that, the Rixain law, which requires all companies to have 40 % of women in their management teams by 2030, is pushing us to think differently and to open up to the idea of diversity.
- How do you manage the great discrepancy between the inflation of salaries for young profiles today and the need to maintain internal equity with more experienced profiles?
Mikaël Butterbach I don't think we've really encountered this type of problem. We have a number of tools for working on increases: increases that concern all employees in a period of very high inflation and individual increases that are completely discriminatory. We make sure that the increases do not affect only one category of the population. The new metallurgy classification also gives us a benchmark against which to measure minimum wages.
- Are the different statuses within DGA an additional constraint on human resources management?
Caroline Krykwinski Answer: On the contrary, I think it's an asset, because it means we can draw on different skill pools. Through the different statuses, we have access to different recruitment channels, both military and civilian. In terms of human resources management, bringing these different statuses to life and living together is a challenge, because each has its own specific rules for pay, promotion and advancement. So we have to be very educational to explain to everyone how it all works, and offer them the right HR services and support (mobility, training, etc.).
- In addition to industrial skills, what are companies' needs in terms of HR, finance and country risk? Are the masters degrees that have been developed in defence and security meeting a demand?
Jean Belin There is a lack of defence training at universities. The financing problems encountered by the defence industry have become more acute and stem more from a lack of knowledge of the defence sector and its specific issues on the part of financial sector managers than from the development of ESG criteria. We therefore have an interest in developing finance courses, traditionally focused on the civilian sector, by introducing a defence option. What's more, there is no real training in defence economics in France and our Chair, with its team of researchers, is trying to make up for this shortcoming.
Mikaël Butterbach We are also planning to work within our companies to acculturate our staff working for the civilian sector to the specificities of the defence world.
- Labour supply is also determined by population dynamics. With a falling birth rate, there is a risk of additional constraints on recruitment. What theoretical effects can we expect from this dynamic?
Jean Belin We've talked about the age pyramid in companies and at the DGA, and it's the same for the French population. Tensions on the labour market will therefore increase. The reduction in the supply of jobs is likely to result in an increase in salaries or indirect benefits. We therefore need to find solutions to increase the labour supply, such as immigration, shorter training periods and longer careers, in particular by raising the retirement age.
- Are ethical issues a barrier to recruiting new staff?
Mikaël Butterbach I stressed the need to give meaning to our activities, which include connecting people with our commercial aircraft, ensuring their safety during rescue operations with our helicopters, providing increasingly important services in our daily lives via our satellites, and contributing to our country's peace via deterrence.
Jean Belin : Here again, I think it's important to introduce courses on the conflict to give a better understanding of the role of defence and armaments. As we saw in Ukraine, weapons are not just there to attack but also to defend. As you mentioned, a very important role of defence is to dissuade the adversary. In a world without weapons, there will always be an adversary with an incentive to produce them and come and appropriate your goods.
- What is the recruitment policy for senior staff from outside the company?
Mikaël Butterbach Airbus has set itself the target of recruiting at least 30 % young people, because we tend to recruit experienced staff who already have professional experience. The difficulty is not in recruiting senior staff, but rather in defining how to ensure that we have enough positions open for young people coming out of schools and universities.
Caroline Krykwinski DGA: I've already mentioned our specific initiatives for senior citizens. I'd just like to add that one of our strengths is our territorial footprint, with the DGA having 18 sites in France. This can help us to find solutions for family reunification in the event of mobility.
Jean Belin : At the same time, the university is seeking to develop continuing education to meet the mobility needs of senior citizens.
- In your organisations, which specialities are you finding it hardest to recruit?
Mikaël Butterbach We, like many organisations, are experiencing difficulties in the IT professions and in cybersecurity in particular. In response, we have created our own diploma, which starts at bac+3 level and goes up to master's level.
Caroline Krykwinski DGA is also experiencing recruitment difficulties in the cyber sector and, more broadly, in the digital sector with, more recently, increasing needs in the field of artificial intelligence. We therefore face a major challenge in attracting private sector talent. This has led us to take specific structural measures in this area in terms of remuneration in order to attract and retain skills in a highly competitive labour market. We must meet the objectives of our Military Planning Law.
Jean Belin : A recent INSEE study on the causes of these shortages showed that they are not due to the level of remuneration but to an intensity of demand and an insufficient supply of resources, hence the need to work globally on developing the supply of training.
[1] Newsletter of the Economics of Defence Chair - IHEDN, «Representations of defence and its budget among young people» No. 9 - February 2020, https://ecodef-ihedn.fr/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/chaire-ECODEF-IHEDN-newsletter-9-11-02-2020.pdf
[2] Joint Metallurgy Qualification Certificate (Certificat de Qualification Paritaire de la Métallurgie)
